The Discussion That Anti-Zionism is Not Anti-Semitism
- Thread starter shack
- Start date
And what moral frame of reference do you use for justifying apartheid and genocide?
Stay on topic instead of deflecting.
You referenced the Pope as a moral authority we should listen to.
The Pope is against abortion. Will you follow the Pope's morality and condemn abortion.
Why would I hammy, I'm not catholic.
Here's today's question, hammy.
Whats the difference between saying you are the chosen people and saying you are the master race?
Stupid answer.
Because you're not Catholic why would you listen to anything that the Pope says? Yet here you were, quoting the Pope's opinion of the conflict/ceasefire?
Make up your mind. Does the Pope's opinion count or not?
Because Biden is a catholic, hammy.
I'm questioning how Genocide Joe can call himself a good catholic when his pope thinks he's evil.
This anyone you know, hammy?
No. That is untrue.
You quoted the Pope's opinion on Gaza as if he was a moral compass.
When I asked you if you then agree with his stance on abortion, you refused to answer because, as you said, you said that you're not Catholic. What you are not is truthful or moralistic.
You never directly provide answers. You only run away.
The dementia is getting worse, hammy.
Read the post, I brought up the pope because Biden is a catholic and he's supposed to be his moral leader.
This is just like you denying that Hamas targeted civilians on the 7th or there were multiple cases of rape and sexual violence.
But I guess covering your eyes and ears is the only way you can justify cheering for groups like Hamas and the Houthis.
p.s. Your article headline is bullshit that you couldn't even bother linking to for fear that reality would get in the way. With Egypt and Qatar, Israel put together a ceasefire offer that the US and Arab league felt was legit and fair. Hamas replied by hardening their positions but stating they had an agreement. The reality is Israel repeatedly accepting deals with Hamas refusing. Hell, Hamas just demanded air drops of aid be stopped. Seems they're more interested in posting pictures of needy people than actually helping them.
Hamas urges halt to airdrops of aid in Gaza after two killed
Hamas on Thursday called for an end to airdrops of aid after two Palestinians were killed in northern Gaza when a aid pallet crashed into a warehouse after its parachute failed to open.
Their demands are even more Palestinian prisoners released, even more Palestinians convicted of capital crimes released and offering even fewer of their hostages. Israel has conceded many things in the negotiations because that's how negotiations work while Hamas keeps demanding more because peace is not in their interests. Hamas needs the civilians to protect them and need their suffering to push their narrative so of course they reject anything that would help their people.
Hamas likely targeted 300-600 civilians on Oct 7 but there were no rapes by Hamas, there is no evidence.
There is evidence, testimonials, reports and victim names from accusations of rape by Palestinians and Palestinian minors by the IDF.
You back those ones.
Israel has also targeted and killed around 40,000 people yet this you also back.
p.s. Your article headline is bullshit that you couldn't even bother linking to for fear that reality would get in the way. With Egypt and Qatar, Israel put together a ceasefire offer that the US and Arab league felt was legit and fair. Hamas replied by hardening their positions but stating they had an agreement. The reality is Israel repeatedly accepting deals with Hamas refusing. Hell, Hamas just demanded air drops of aid be stopped. Seems they're more interested in posting pictures of needy people than actually helping them.
Hamas urges halt to airdrops of aid in Gaza after two killed
Hamas on Thursday called for an end to airdrops of aid after two Palestinians were killed in northern Gaza when a aid pallet crashed into a warehouse after its parachute failed to open.www.france24.com
The Israeli position is they want a pause in the genocide where Hamas returns all hostages and then Israel goes back to the genocide.
The Hamas call is for an end to the genocide in three stages.
You back genocide, not peace, clearly.
You would prefer more genocide, not the end of it.
I'm sure this would be you if you were in Israel, not brave enough to fight but mean enough to try to starve 2 million refugees.
The sticking point is that Israel wants a pause for the return of hostages and then a return to genocide.
Hamas wants a permanent ceasefire.
By backing the Israeli position make it clear you want more genocide.
This was in the West Bank.
What kind of guarantee?
That's not a guarantee, though.
I don't understand why you would use a word that so obviously doesn't mean what you say.
If all you want is "pressure", then stop saying "guarantee".
So we aren't at "pressure" anymore.
Biden should "force a ceasefire".
So everything up to invading and bombing Israel is on the table if that's what is required?
Why do you think Biden obeys the Pope?
Guarantee is the correct word here, given we are talking politics.
A promise is worthless, a guarantee worth way more even if its not the legal definition.
No, no more 'interventions' or bombing.
Yesterday Biden withheld some bombs going to Israel, today the GOP is practically calling him a traitor and the government that clearly would prefer rump is now threatening him as well. Netanyahu declares he'll go rogue state without the US. All for a couple of stalled deliveries while they have way too many bombs for Gaza already.
Did I use the word 'obey'?
Do you even think about what you are saying?
A guarantee is backed by something.
You are the one who said all they wanted was a promise to exert pressure.
What guarantee do you want from Biden and how will it be backed?
Do you want a security guarantee - where the US promises to prevent Israel from ever exerting military force in Gaza again?
(Security guarantees are supposed to be backed with the use of force, as I am sure you are well aware.)
Do you want a specific guarantee of "If Israel does X, they will face sanctions and economic reprisals"?
What guarantee do you want?
Is it limited to Rafah?
Is it territorial?
What triggers?
Which is why you think Trump should be elected, I know.
Biden isn't doing anything and therefore Trump and the GOP will be better.
But is this a guarantee?
No.
So what do you want as a guarantee?
Just implied it - since as a Catholic he is supposed to be concerned about what the pope thinks.
Considering he also supports freedom of choice despite Catholic teaching, and gay marriage, I don't think Biden is too concerned about the Pope.
Of course, you are implying Biden and the Pope are in disagreement.
You want a guarantee in a legal sense, a contract with terms and penalties.
We are talking politics here.
I don't want either elected, really.
Do you? Wait, you do.
If there had to be a contract with legal terms, cease all arms sales, cease all funding and allow all UN resolutions.
Would that happen, not a chance.
The pope called repeatedly for a ceasefire, Biden pays lip service will working the system to send more bombs. Though now he's paused that, showing he knows he can pressure Netanyahu he just doesn't want to.
No.
We are talking international relations and treaties.
Unless you are seriously saying you just want him to use the word "guarantee" instead of "promise".
Which is kind of nuts.
One of the two will be elected.
That's the reality.
Therefore one must choose between the two unless you are advocating for overthrow of the United States government.
So the guarantee would be "Don't go into Rafah or we will cease all arm sales and all fundings and vote against you in all future UN resolutions"?
That's what you think it would take for the US to stop Israel?
You also think it would never happen?
The pope did.
Under what terms, might I ask?
No, you use the word 'guarantee'' during talks so that when its put down the goals are not aspirational, but dictated.
If they are both still around in Nov, if rump isn't in jail, if rump's dementia doesn't get noticeably worse, if no other global event/recession/coup/war/plague happens. If there isn't a mass movement around Jill Stein or RKF's brain worm comes back and leads him to a coup.
Its still in the future.
Netanyahu's desperation and evil still surprises me. So what would it take to stop him? Maybe not the US at this point, maybe it has to be his own people, either his army or the not totally insane parts of his government. Things keep changing, and not for the better.
‘Netanyahu has become the least trusted man in Israeli politics’
“It’s clear the [Israeli army] and Netanyahu are not on the same page. Netanyahu is spoiling for a fight with President Biden for political reasons, while the [Israeli army] is making sure its [American] counterparts know the general staff in Israel is moderate,” Oren told Al Jazeera.
“That means if given a direct order to go into Rafah, the military will execute, but they’ll do their best to recommend other options.”
He noted Netanyahu faces opposition within his cabinet from moderates.
“Netanyahu cannot go it alone. The other ministers are restraining him. Obviously, he is playing for his political survival and, therefore, he needs the war to go on. If he doesn’t go into Rafah there is no pretext for him to prolong the war. And that is why Netanyahu has become the least trusted man in Israeli politics – and perhaps Israel itself,” said Oren.
Probably every goes to hell unless there is a ceasefire followed by three Hail Mary's.
At this point you are going to need to give a concrete example of what you think you are talking about when you say "guarantee".
I won't even ask you for the nth time what you want Biden to guarantee.
Give me an example from another situation that explains your position when you say you want a guarantee in an international relations talk.
Because at this point we seem to be talking about very different things but you seem to be thinking of something specific and not just rambling so just point me to it so I can figure out what you mean.
There will be no mass movement around Jill Stein.
But your whole argument here is therefore "you need to vote based on the actual circumstances happening".
Which is, again, my whole fucking point.
Have I been arguing Netanyahu is doing the right thing?
Just dodging the question, I see.
None.
(This was December by the way)
He called for peace and a return of the hostages.
No details.
