NL Hold 'em play styles; GTO (game theory optimal), Exploitative, Feel/Reads etc.

[versitile1]

GTO, or game theory optimal uses a chart that optimizes your best move based on your cards, position, bet sizing, and the range of hands you put your opponent on. The chart is very hard to memorize, and is the source of controversy at this year's WSOP main, where the eventual winner was getting advice in-between hands from his coach, who had an open laptop and most likely the GTO chart on the screen. Works best against other GTO players.

Exploitative play involves raising pots when you sense that other players may be weak/passive. Raising in position preflop with pretty much any two cards in a limped in pot would be an example of this. It doesn't generally work well against new players because they generally only play their cards and don't put other players on any ranges/hands. Also, some players will just spite call after your continuous raises.

Feel/reads; using "tells" you may have picked up on from other players to decide your best play. Can get costly if you're constantly wrong.

I haven't studied GTO too much but have a general understanding of the principles. I think it works best in tournaments, where you have to make the least amount of mistakes, while still playing enough pots to be able to build your stack.

 

[versitile1]

 

[superstar_88]

If you're constantly wrong with your tells then just do the opposite then you'd be constantly correct.
Leak fixed.

 

[ogibowt]

on line i play low stakes tourneys because they are held during the day....higher buy ins which i would feel comfortable playing are held in the evening and could go on till past my bedtime lol..at my age i have become an early riser and early to bed.....thats why a few years ago i regularly played 125$ buy ins in Brantford because they were held Sunday Mornings....i if you ran deep would go for a bout 5/6 hours......as for playing on line ...in these low end buyins we are all rec fish..but there are players that understand the nuances of the game more than others....and from whati learned i rarely 3 bet light because most limpers will call.....and dont be afraid to go for thin value on the river......of course bet for value if you believe you got a winning and....if you are first to act against one player, dont check trying to be tricky....just lead out with top pair and good kicker because some fish/donk may call with 2nd pair...ive seen this too many times.....other players will fold 2nd pair but they are the disciplined ones

 

[versitile1]

If you're constantly wrong with your tells then just do the opposite then you'd be constantly correct.
Leak fixed.

Well, for me, using a combination of a few different playing styles works best, mixing it up, as it were. Relying solely on tells can be extremely difficult because it may take several rounds before you can pick up on anything that the other players are doing. At the lower stake cash games and tournaments, you can stick to playing ABC poker and still have lots of success.

 

[superstar_88]

if you are first to act against one player, dont check trying to be tricky....just lead out with top pair and good kicker because some fish/donk may call with 2nd pair...ive seen this too many times.....other players will fold 2nd pair but they are the disciplined ones

This is only true against you who never bluffs and always has it when betting the river.

 

[ogibowt]

This is only true against you who never bluffs and always has it when betting the river.

agreed ..so you should mix up your game with river bluffs....so you are not predictable.....but if you bluff...2 things....tell a believable story...and avoid bluffing clueless calling stations who play their own cards.....but in those low end buyins you have players who call because "hey just have to see it" and take the pot with 2nd pair or even ace high,,,lesson? pay attention and learn the various tendencies of opposing players.....i play on PS fairly regularly and you get to know alot of the regs and how they play...and of course attentive players know how you play...so the idea would be to try to be unpredictable

 

[eddie kerr]

GTO, or game theory optimal uses a chart that optimizes your best move based on your cards, position, bet sizing, and the range of hands you put your opponent on. The chart is very hard to memorize, and is the source of controversy at this year's WSOP main, where the eventual winner was getting advice in-between hands from his coach, who had an open laptop and most likely the GTO chart on the screen. Works best against other GTO players.

Exploitative play involves raising pots when you sense that other players may be weak/passive. Raising in position preflop with pretty much any two cards in a limped in pot would be an example of this. It doesn't generally work well against new players because they generally only play their cards and don't put other players on any ranges/hands. Also, some players will just spite call after your continuous raises.

Feel/reads; using "tells" you may have picked up on from other players to decide your best play. Can get costly if you're constantly wrong.

I haven't studied GTO too much but have a general understanding of the principles. I think it works best in tournaments, where you have to make the least amount of mistakes, while still playing enough pots to be able to build your stack.
[/QUO

agreed ..so you should mix up your game with river bluffs....so you are not predictable.....but if you bluff...2 things....tell a believable story...and avoid bluffing clueless calling stations who play their own cards.....but in those low end buyins you have players who call because "hey just have to see it" and take the pot with 2nd pair or even ace high,,,lesson? pay attention and learn the various tendencies of opposing players.....i play on PS fairly regularly and you get to know alot of the regs and how they play...and of course attentive players know how you play...so the idea would be to try to be unpredictable

Many sites allow poker trackers which shows the habits of other players showing how aggressive or passive they are. At PS you can use a colour code on their names as an indication as to how they play as the same players usually play on a regular basis.

 

[versitile1]

Many sites allow poker trackers which shows the habits of other players showing how aggressive or passive they are. At PS you can use a colour code on their names as an indication as to how they play as the same players usually play on a regular basis.

I haven't played any online since Douggy Ford made it Ontario only. I think I still have $20 or so but since live poker opened up fairly close by, I don't really have any desire to play online.

I think GTO works best in online play. You can have the chart open, track players, and see the best options for playing your hands in different situations. Since many players use GTO online, you really need to mix up your game and remain unpredictable, as others have said.

 

[eddie kerr]

I haven't played any online since Douggy Ford made it Ontario only. I think I still have $20 or so but since live poker opened up fairly close by, I don't really have any desire to play online.

I think GTO works best in online play. You can have the chart open, track players, and see the best options for playing your hands in different situations. Since many players use GTO online, you really need to mix up your game and remain unpredictable, as others have said.

I agree that Ford's new rules on online poker sites limiting the number of sites Ontario residents can play, i think about 6 or so, I a total joke. Biggest problem is not enough players to fill tournaments which is all I play. I am still ahead of the game but not like in the past. Vote for Bonnie Crombie and get rid of that AHOLE.

 

[superstar_88]

agreed ..so you should mix up your game with river bluffs....so you are not predictable.....but if you bluff...2 things....tell a believable story...and avoid bluffing clueless calling stations who play their own cards.....but in those low end buyins you have players who call because "hey just have to see it" and take the pot with 2nd pair or even ace high,,,lesson? pay attention and learn the various tendencies of opposing players.....i play on PS fairly regularly and you get to know alot of the regs and how they play...and of course attentive players know how you play...so the idea would be to try to be unpredictable

You missed my point. My point was your advice to everyone to never call with 2nd pair is only valid against a player like you who never bluffs and always has it. Opponents tendencies dictates whether you should be folding or calling with 2nd pair. So in poker the answer is always it depends. Not a hard and fast rule always fold 2nd pair.

It's like saying never fold KK preflop. The answer should be it depends.

 

[eddie kerr]

You missed my point. My point was your advice to everyone to never call with 2nd pair is only valid against a player like you who never bluffs and always has it. Opponents tendencies dictates whether you should be folding or calling with 2nd pair. So in poker the answer is always it depends. Not a hard and fast rule always fold 2nd pair.

It's like saying never fold KK preflop. The answer should be it depends.

Firstly, i agree with ogbowt. Also, in NL Holdem tournaments, I always go all in with KK pocket pairs and win 99.9% of the time. However, of I am dealt pocket AAs, I usually open with a small raise and after the flop I will all in especially if a player makes a bet. By the way, I have cashed over $3000. in the last year in low buy in tournaments.

 

[superstar_88]

Firstly, i agree with ogbowt. Also, in NL Holdem tournaments, I always go all in with KK pocket pairs and win 99.9% of the time. However, of I am dealt pocket AAs, I usually open with a small raise and after the flop I will all in especially if a player makes a bet. By the way, I have cashed over $3000. in the last year in low buy in tournaments.

Oh my gosh then you also missed my point. 99.999999% of the time you don't fold KK preflop cause there are very few circumstances that warrant it but there can be a time depending on the circumstances where folding KK is the disciplined fold. In other words it depends.

If you think never calling with 2nd pair should be a poker mantra then you are prime to be exploited.

If you win 99.9% of the time with KK then you are extremely lucky cause even KK vs 27 offsuit only wins 86.9% of the time. Yes, 27 offsuit beats KK 12.7% of the time and we all know there are plenty of hands even better than 27 offsuit.
So you with KK wins 999 times out of 1000 whereas the rest of the mere mortals wins at best only 7 out of 8.
KK vs 22 wins 80.9% or roughly 4 out of 5 times. KK against A2 wins 67% of the time or 2 out of 3.

 

[ogibowt]

Oh my gosh then you also missed my point. 99.999999% of the time you don't fold KK preflop cause there are very few circumstances that warrant it but there can be a time depending on the circumstances where folding KK is the disciplined fold. In other words it depends.

If you think never calling with 2nd pair should be a poker mantra then you are prime to be exploited.

If you win 99.9% of the time with KK then you are extremely lucky cause even KK vs 27 offsuit only wins 86.9% of the time. Yes, 27 offsuit beats KK 12.7% of the time and we all know there are plenty of hands even better than 27 offsuit.
So you with KK wins 999 times out of 1000 whereas the rest of the mere mortals wins at best only 7 out of 8.
KK vs 22 wins 80.9% or roughly 4 out of 5 times. KK against A2 wins 67% of the time or 2 out of 3.

i dont think i said i always fold 2 pair....especially after the flop....maybe by the river i would if im up against a nit....but if im up against a loose maniac who i perceive as someone who over bluffs i will suck it up and call.....especially if there is a busted flush or straight draw

 

[eddie kerr]

Oh my gosh then you also missed my point. 99.999999% of the time you don't fold KK preflop cause there are very few circumstances that warrant it but there can be a time depending on the circumstances where folding KK is the disciplined fold. In other words it depends.

If you think never calling with 2nd pair should be a poker mantra then you are prime to be exploited.

If you win 99.9% of the time with KK then you are extremely lucky cause even KK vs 27 offsuit only wins 86.9% of the time. Yes, 27 offsuit beats KK 12.7% of the time and we all know there are plenty of hands even better than 27 offsuit.
So you with KK wins 999 times out of 1000 whereas the rest of the mere mortals wins at best only 7 out of 8.
KK vs 22 wins 80.9% or roughly 4 out of 5 times. KK against A2 wins 67% of the time or 2 out of 3.

If I go all in with KK, who in the hell is stupid enough to call with 27? I am talking about no limit not fixed limit hold em.

 

[superstar_88]

If I go all in with KK, who in the hell is stupid enough to call with 27? I am talking about no limit not fixed limit hold em.

Ok so you missed the point again. The point is it is a miracle that you are winning with KK 999 times out of 1000 when any hand better than 27 wins at least 1 out of 8 times. Get it now? I'll say it again any hand better than 27

Here, I'll make it easier for you to understand
Against KK:
AQ wins over 28% of the time
TJ suited wins over 20% of the time
88 wins just under 20% of the time

So tell me, how on earth are you winning 999 times out of 1000 with your KK?
The point was 27 being the worse hand in poker still wins 1 out of 8 times so any hand wins more than that so you winning 99.9% of the time is just total make belief.

 

[superstar_88]

i dont think i said i always fold 2 pair....especially after the flop....maybe by the river i would if im up against a nit....but if im up against a loose maniac who i perceive as someone who over bluffs i will suck it up and call.....especially if there is a busted flush or straight draw

No one said after the flop. You advised everyone to fold 2nd pair on the river and mocked anyone who does call.
Questions you should be asking yourself when facing a bet and you holding 2nd pair.
Is he a habitual bluffer
Opponents action on prior streets
What is the texture of the board.
Are there any missed draws.
Whether opponent is wearing a rolex or a timex.
And I'm not even talking about any tells.
In other words, it depends.

 

[ogibowt]

No one said after the flop. You advised everyone to fold 2nd pair on the river and mocked anyone who does call.
Questions you should be asking yourself when facing a bet and you holding 2nd pair.
Is he a habitual bluffer
Opponents action on prior streets
What is the texture of the board.
Are their any missed draws.
Whether opponent is wearing a rolex or a timex.
And I'm not even talking about any tells.
In other words, it depends.

Superstar....you are lecturing a rec fish..me...lol...............but i understand the nuances of the game and have so, for quite along time....i used to enjoy the 125$ at Brantford Casino...even took one down and final tabled some.....quite awhile ago i took down a 500$ tourney in Brantford.....i luckboxed my way through....got hit by the deck lol.....now i play low stakes on line and enjoy it...as well as a couple of homegames.....how about you?...share some of your poker history with us...

 

[superstar_88]

Superstar....you are lecturing a rec fish..me...lol...............but i understand the nuances of the game and have so, for quite along time....i used to enjoy the 125$ at Brantford Casino...even took one down and final tabled some.....quite awhile ago i took down a 500$ tourney in Brantford.....i luckboxed my way through....got hit by the deck lol.....now i play low stakes on line and enjoy it...as well as a couple of homegames.....how about you?...share some of your poker history with us...

My apologies. You are correct. I will stop now.
This goes same for Eddie. Apologies to him as well.
I don't play poker. You know what they say. Those who can't do lecture.

 

[eddie kerr]

Ok so you missed the point again. The point is it is a miracle that you are winning with KK 999 times out of 1000 when any hand better than 27 wins at least 1 out of 8 times. Get it now? I'll say it again any hand better than 27

Here, I'll make it easier for you to understand
Against KK:
AQ wins over 28% of the time
TJ suited wins over 20% of the time
88 wins just under 20% of the time

So tell me, how on earth are you winning 999 times out of 1000 with your KK?
The point was 27 being the worse hand in poker still wins 1 out of 8 times so any hand wins more than that so you winning 99.9% of the time is just total make belief.

Firstly, how many times % wise when you have KK do you run into a player that have those hands? Also even someone holding those cards, If the bet is all in, what % of them will call? So many things come into play such as if my bet covers their stack, they may not want to call for getting knocked out.